In the section of the NPS’s Noncommercial River Trip Regulations entitled “Human Waste Carry-Out Method” (Page 14) the NPS asserts: “It is easy to contain about 50 uses in a container measuring 2,000 cubic inches.” By our calculations this equates to 40 cubic inches per use. Wow! That’s one massive bowel movement. Our experience is that half that amount is adequate. But when you’re on the Grand you have to play by the NPS rules, so our calculations for the size of the Groover assume 40 cubic inches per use. So, for a 12 day trip on the Grand the NPS says you need 480 cubic inches of space for your PHWM system. We considered two different ways to provide 480 cubic inches for human waste: Pelican cases or PVC pipe, and our experience is that the PVC pipe is the superior method.
The groover mounted in the altered center wall of the Remix XP
There are several options for wall thickness in PVC, and for this purpose the thinner the better. The attached calculations assume SCH 40 PVC, which is generally available at building supply stores. It’s the green PVC pipe at Lowes or Home Depot, but Woody found at a local supplier some thinner PVC used for sewer pipe. You’ll want to use 6″ PVC, which fits well in the front of the kayak, and the pipe needs to about 16″ to get you the required volume. A solid end cap is glued on one end of the pipe, and on the other is glued a female threaded end cap with a threaded plug.
Boyce showing us his 'groover wrench'
You’ll want to manufacture some sort of “groover wrench” to unscrew the threaded plug. The plug has a square nut on it, so we cut a piece of 1/4 inch plastic sheet as a handle with a matching square hole to serve as a wrench. Another important innovation in PHWM system is the foam plug. This is a circular piece of minicell about an inch thick that fits inside the groover and separates the HW from toilet paper, wipes, etc.
Woody showing us how the 'groover' can double as a table or stool (no pun intended). Way to bring it back full circle.
The container fits well in the front of the XP10 by cutting an insert slot in the front wall of the boat. Punch a couple of cam straps through the foam that will secure the groover in the wall of the kayak. The groover is then sitting between your feet while you’re paddling, and you don’t even know it’s there. –Boyce–
The 'groover' mounted in the XP 10
The groover is a necessary piece of equipment for any Grand Canyon Trip. Here is a little video with Grand Canyon veteran Will Lyons explaining the beauty of…well watch the video and see for yourself.
http://www.vimeo.com/10441949
specifications of our teams personal waste management systems
Like can I replace the center column when I am not using the Groover.
t
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Damn, it’s hard to find 6″ pipe!
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Would the groover fit in the same space using a 4” pipe x 24” long in the XP 10??
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It would but your going to lose some storage space in the front or in the cockpit. To be honest the key is to find the PVC thin wall pipe. We never found that in four inch so we went with the six inch. You can reference the post with the spreadsheet Boyce made for exact details. Hope this helps.
Woody
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Thanx, I made my groover out of the 6″ green pipe (Vinyl Tech sewer pipe) …I made the wrench out of the same pipe stock…it fits up against the tube perfectly. Thanks Woody for the inspiration. …off to the Colorado next week!! solo n with my xp, Dan
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…now I gotta figure out the foam part without having the boat here???
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Should the groover be air/water tight? I’ve done a water test and the lid seeps a very little water. I’m thinking that might be alright so the unit doesn’t build up too much pressure and it might help if I put the waste in wag bags or restop bags as I fill the groover. Canyonlands Park Service (backcountry permits: 435-719-2100) told me using plastic garbage bags is Illegal and promotes health hazards as the waste is disposed of in trash cans. I’m planning to empty the groover at an RV dump station.
I also wrapped some Teflon tape around the lid, which helped the seepage (a bit) and made it easier to open and close.
…thoughts, comments??
dan
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Dan, We never had a problem with seepage. We were paddling in Jan. and temps were in the low to mid 40’s during the day so we did not have a problem with pressure building up. Here are a couple of Groover secrets. 1- forest service does require that you do not use wag bags…. however we did. It makes using the groover a much better experience. We all made a plug out of foam that seperated the poop end from the rest of the tube. This worked great as a storage place for toliet paper, or anything else you want to put in there. One thing that we made was a wrench for the groover. I made one out of a small hard plastic cutting board… by simply tracing the square knob on the treaded cap and cutting it out of the center of the cutting board… This made a great wrench and I also was able to use the groover as a table (I know it sounds weird but it worked great). I dug a hole and stood the groover up packing sand around the edges… then sat the cutting board on top to cook. I also used it as a stool (no pun intended) around camp. Woody
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